By Martin Banks

The war in Ukraine is a war between two systems, according to a leading human rights lawyer.

The comments, by Oleksandra Matviichuk, come amid intensified attacks in the Russia-Ukraine war and the pressure to initiate peace negotiations.

Matviichuk is a leading Ukrainian human rights lawyer and co-recipient of the 2022 Nobel Peace Prize.

She spoke about the situation on the ground in Ukraine and whether should Ukraine be negotiating with Vladimir Putin.

Matviichuk was recently in Brussels to address the International Conference on Accountability and Justice for Ukraine. She was also the Guest of Honour at the RSF Press Freedom Prize 2023 and participated in the European Parliament’s High-Level Conference on Human rights.

In a Q&A Matviichuk and asked how much longer she thinks the war will continue she said that was being determined “right now, and it greatly depends on the stance of the international community.”

“Because this is not just a war between two states. This is the war between two systems – authoritarianism and democracy.”

She said, “Russia wants to convince the entire world that democracy, human rights and the rule of law are fake values. Because they do not protect anyone in the war. Russia wants to convince that a state with a powerful military potential and nuclear weapons can break the world order, dictate its rules to the international community, and even forcibly change internationally recognized borders.

And this is not about Ukraine laying down its arms. People in Ukraine want peace more than anyone else. But peace does not come when the country that was invaded stops fighting. That’s not peace, that’s occupation. And occupation is another form of war. Occupation is not about changing one state flag to another. Occupation means enforced disappearances, torture, deportations, forced adoptions of your children, denial of identity, filtration camps, and mass graves.”

 Asked if the conflict is likely to be resolved peacefully or militarily, she said it was about how to “persuade Putin to give up the idea of restoring the Russian Empire by means of diplomacy.“

“He publicly announced this idea back in his 2007 Munich speech, and no one took him seriously at the time. In a year, Russia unleashed the war in Georgia, which the West did not respond to, and thereby encouraged the aggressor to further aggressive acts. I do not know if there is something like that in the arsenal of Western diplomats, or if it is just wishful thinking and unwillingness to perceive reality.”

“I know one thing for sure, if Putin is not stopped in Ukraine, he will go further.”

 She was also asked if she had personally been threatened  to which she said,“Many times.During the Revolution of Dignity, thugs from paramilitary groups, which we called “titushky” at that time, came to my house.”

“Consequently, I could not return home for more than a month.”

She said, “At the same time, the Yanukovych-era prosecutor’s office obliged me to come to testify, and it was a trick to arrest me. Then we were the first organization to send mobile teams to Crimea and to the east to document war crimes, constantly risking to be abducted or shot. During the full-scale invasion, I stayed with part of the team in Kyiv, which the Russian troops were trying to encircle,” she added.

The lawyer said, “We all were perfectly aware of what they would do to us if they went in. Now in the entire country, there is no safe place where you can escape Russian missiles.”

“However, this is an attribute of human rights activity in countries in transition, and many people in various parts of the world work like this,” she said.